Misaligned prop shaft

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Mary Mac
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I finally got the transmission rebuilt and installed. A mechanic did the rebuild and reinstalled it. We started the engine to test it yesterday. There was a horrible sound when in gear and the prop shaft is wobbling quite a bit. The mechanic said that the shaft coupling was very loose around the shaft so he had to file it and re key with a larger key. I didn’t see what he did. He said the bronze shaft and steel coupling are very worn.
This is a Westerbeke 30 4-91 with a Paragon SAOV and Walters V-drive RV-10.
Has anyone worked with this V-drive? It seems to me that if the shaft was aligned before, it should be able to be aligned again without adjusting the engine mount. The manual explains to adjust the v drive when installing but it doesn’t explain how.

I likely need a new shaft, but of course I’d rather get this one to work if possible.

Image
Mary
https://svmuleka.com
Muleka 1978 Cal 34-III #111 Marina Village, Alameda, California
Nepenthe 1976 Kelly Peterson 44 #116 Redondo Beach, California
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rcvesselstyn
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Hi Mary just a thought. If your mechanic needed to rekey the shaft sometimes that can put it off center especially if the hub was worn. It did not appear from the video that the shaft is bent just that it's origin is off center. Just a little sketch that's extremely exaggerated to show what I mean.
20220309_181803.jpg
20220309_181803.jpg (2.96 MiB) Viewed 29003 times
if this is the case no amount of alignment can solve the problem. I would check the hub and the prop shaft first to make sure that that this isn't the problem before trying to make any adjustments to the position of the engine or v drive. If it is the problem it can be shimmed with a sleeve before you consider replacing the prop shaft.
1977 Cal 2 29 Emerald Flash #964 , Isthmus, Catalina Island , California
Jedsail
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Concerning your prop shaft wobble - This needs to repaired, not just patched. You really need to haul the boat, and evaluate your drive train.

FIRST - replace the flexible engine mounts if they are collapsed or oil soaked. Otherwise, engine / shaft alignment cannot be accomplished.
If your mounts are older than 8 years or so, they are suspect.

Now remove the prop and shaft from the boat, rebuild the stuffing box with a new stern tube hose, T bolt clamps, and Gore Tex packing.
Measure for the new stainless steel shaft, [ ensure the "overhang dimension is within spec] and order a new coupler with it, to be "fit and faced". This will ensure the coupler and shaft rotate concentrically. Install a new cutless bearing. This is also a good time to have the prop checked for blade and hub bore condition.

Now check the prop hub bore to prop shaft taper, using Prussian blue. Lap it, if needed, so they fit correctly and the prop will rotate concentrically with the prop shaft. CORRECTLY test assemble the prop to the shaft, ensuring there is no key interference. If room allows, insert the shaft with attached prop into the boat, and mount the new coupler to the shaft. Now center the shaft in the stern tube [ we use cloth rags ] and proceed with engine / shaft alignment. Once complete, remove the rags, place the stuff box assembly onto the stern tube, tighten the clamps and packing nut [ hand tight on the nut ] and launch the boat. After 24 hours in the water, recheck alignment and install new coupler bolts. NOW you will have a correct, reliable, and long lived drive train ! Joe
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rcvesselstyn
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If you are going to do the complete job you should go with monel, not stainless, for the prop shaft. Stainless is very prone to crevice corrosion especially with a dripless packing gland.
1977 Cal 2 29 Emerald Flash #964 , Isthmus, Catalina Island , California
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Mary Mac
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rcvesselstyn wrote: Wed Mar 09, 2022 6:34 pm Hi Mary just a thought. If your mechanic needed to rekey the shaft sometimes that can put it off center especially if the hub was worn. It did not appear from the video that the shaft is bent just that it's origin is off center. Just a little sketch that's extremely exaggerated to show what I mean. 20220309_181803.jpg if this is the case no amount of alignment can solve the problem. I would check the hub and the prop shaft first to make sure that that this isn't the problem before trying to make any adjustments to the position of the engine or v drive. If it is the problem it can be shimmed with a sleeve before you consider replacing the prop shaft.
That's what I'm thinking, also. If the shaft was aligned before and the key was added, this makes the most sense to me.. at least as a first thing to try. Its difficult to see, though. The mechanic says the shaft is worn.
Mary
https://svmuleka.com
Muleka 1978 Cal 34-III #111 Marina Village, Alameda, California
Nepenthe 1976 Kelly Peterson 44 #116 Redondo Beach, California
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Mary Mac
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Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:27 am
Location: Alameda/Manhattan Beach

Jedsail wrote: Thu Mar 10, 2022 10:27 am Concerning your prop shaft wobble - This needs to repaired, not just patched. You really need to haul the boat, and evaluate your drive train.

FIRST - replace the flexible engine mounts if they are collapsed or oil soaked. Otherwise, engine / shaft alignment cannot be accomplished.
If your mounts are older than 8 years or so, they are suspect.

Now remove the prop and shaft from the boat, rebuild the stuffing box with a new stern tube hose, T bolt clamps, and Gore Tex packing.
Measure for the new stainless steel shaft, [ ensure the "overhang dimension is within spec] and order a new coupler with it, to be "fit and faced". This will ensure the coupler and shaft rotate concentrically. Install a new cutless bearing. This is also a good time to have the prop checked for blade and hub bore condition.

Now check the prop hub bore to prop shaft taper, using Prussian blue. Lap it, if needed, so they fit correctly and the prop will rotate concentrically with the prop shaft. CORRECTLY test assemble the prop to the shaft, ensuring there is no key interference. If room allows, insert the shaft with attached prop into the boat, and mount the new coupler to the shaft. Now center the shaft in the stern tube [ we use cloth rags ] and proceed with engine / shaft alignment. Once complete, remove the rags, place the stuff box assembly onto the stern tube, tighten the clamps and packing nut [ hand tight on the nut ] and launch the boat. After 24 hours in the water, recheck alignment and install new coupler bolts. NOW you will have a correct, reliable, and long lived drive train ! Joe
Thanks Joe. I had the cutlass bearing replaced when I hauled out a year and a half ago. I fitted a new prop at the same time. The stuffing box has just been re-packed with gore tex. Thank you for the other suggestions. Changing the engine mounts sounds like a difficult project, and if the shaft was aligned before, wouldn't it be likely the engine is already in the correct position?
Mary
https://svmuleka.com
Muleka 1978 Cal 34-III #111 Marina Village, Alameda, California
Nepenthe 1976 Kelly Peterson 44 #116 Redondo Beach, California
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allen
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Wow, I really thought I replied to this thread. Basically what you are seeing looks just like what my prop shaft looked like before I aligned it after I had the engine rebuilt. My engine is hard bolted to the boat so no engine mounts so it really wants to be right on.

One thing I will say in answer to your question of if it was good before, would it not be good now. What you want is for the space around the coupling to be less than .003 inches or less all the way around. Ideally you would want the two plates to line up exactly and touch all sides at once before you put the bolts in. One thing I found is that there are four ways to bolt those two things together and you might find that there is only one of the four where the alignment is correct. Super easy thing to test and if that is the problem, super easy fix.
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Mary Mac
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allen wrote: Mon Mar 14, 2022 9:07 pm Wow, I really thought I replied to this thread. Basically what you are seeing looks just like what my prop shaft looked like before I aligned it after I had the engine rebuilt. My engine is hard bolted to the boat so no engine mounts so it really wants to be right on.

One thing I will say in answer to your question of if it was good before, would it not be good now. What you want is for the space around the coupling to be less than .003 inches or less all the way around. Ideally you would want the two plates to line up exactly and touch all sides at once before you put the bolts in. One thing I found is that there are four ways to bolt those two things together and you might find that there is only one of the four where the alignment is correct. Super easy thing to test and if that is the problem, super easy fix.
Thanks, Allen. I need to pull it and take a look. I have rarely encountered a super easy fix on a sailboat, but I'm all for it! :D
Mary
https://svmuleka.com
Muleka 1978 Cal 34-III #111 Marina Village, Alameda, California
Nepenthe 1976 Kelly Peterson 44 #116 Redondo Beach, California
Tango75
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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:19 pm

Mary,
I've been reading your transmission saga with great interest. You may have seen my recent post, that I am having an identical issue with my Paragon. I am considering two options for the rebuild and was hoping you could share how things turned out with the rebuild? It is apparent that we are dealing with museum pieces and a collection of skilled curators who can repair them and supply parts. I'm hoping to pull the Paragon this weekend and ship it south (from Juneau) and also hoping to learn some lessons from the prop shaft alignment problem. Thanks in advance for any updates on the Paragon. Tango 75. Dave D'.
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allen
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Yes, how did it come out? Is your problem solved and how did you solve it. Your fans want to know.
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